2023-12-03 23:17:55
He Zaragoza Bar Association organized a day on the new legal regime of groundwaterapproved with royal decree 665/2023 and HERALDO previously summoned the coordinator of the Environmental Law section, the Zaragoza lawyer José Manuel Marraco, defender of Greenpeace; at the lawyer Juan Antonio Loste, partner of Uria Menéndez and linked to sector industrial; already Javier San Román, deputy commissioner of the Ebro Hydrographic Confederation (CHE), to debate whether this ecological issue is being addressed with sufficient means and whether the vision of companies and farmers has changed.
Why was it necessary to promote this new regulation?
For José Manuel Marraco, “The problem of controlled contamination of a company is a localized discharge, but I am concerned about diffuse contamination of facilities such as macro farms that are more difficult to detect.” “Paper holds everything, but The Administration must be given the means to execute the rules. I would like the environmental administration to have the same effectiveness as the tax administration,” emphasizes the Zaragoza lawyer who represents the Greenpace environmentalists. “The aquifer becomes contaminated and then does not come to light.”
The water commissioner of the Ebro Hydrographic Confederation (CHE), Javier San Romándefends that The contamination of groundwater and its extension “are specific”. “They are limited and the important ones are being decontaminated, to the extent possible. But it is one thing when we talk about the industrial sector and another about diffuse pollution, with nitrates, because it is what worries us the most and it is good that it is talked about,” he acknowledges.
Furthermore, San Román assumes that the CHE has influenced this new regulation because since the organization of the Ebro Basin it was already acting as a mark of the royal decree and defends that they were the ones who had the most knowledge about groundwater, together with the Catalan Water Agency.
To the lawyer and partner of Uría Menéndez, Juan Antonio Loste, defender of the industrial sector, consider that the new regulations are unattractive administratively “because “It has very punitive elements.” “It would be desirable that, following the model of contaminated soils, it promotes a mechanism to surface these situations,” proposes the lawyer from the Barcelona College, because he believes that the measures of the administrative process, such as the request, the assessment of damages, the sanctioning file and bail, “they do not move wills.”
“The soil contamination regulations are a new opportunity to help surface and make these contaminated aquifers safe,” emphasizes the companies’ lawyer. “Those bodies of water that are used even for supply in the future must be made safe and that there are no affected supplies, the hydraulic confinements are well defined.”
What proportion of the Ebro basin belongs to groundwater?
“Groundwater in the Ebro basin is around 15% of all the water carried by the rivers,” emphasizes Javier San Román. “Part of it can come from aquifers that take years to drain and other waters that are in the Pyrenees account for 10% and it is the snow that infiltrates when it falls and leaves the same year. There are other basins such as the right part of the Ebro or the Júcar that reach up to 30%.”
How do lawyers from environmentalists and the industrial sector get along?
José Manuel Marraco, from Greenpeace, believes that “environmental problems must be faced with optimism and not be fatalistic.” “As Manuel Vicente said, you have to come home crying. You cannot be lamenting but rather offering solutions. I am grateful that in the atmosphere of tension, here are the Bar Associations of Barcelona and Zaragoza joining forces to defend the environment.”
Juan Antonio Loste, defender of the industrial sector, maintains that “environmental operatorsContrary to what people believe, we all get along: public administrations, lawyers, industries and specialized prosecutors’ offices. “We have the same language and we understand each other reasonably. We need to be given sensible tools so that we can ensure that the environment is not deteriorated,” he defends.
“If you decontaminate we can reach an agreement. “It is not only the punitive effect (of the regulations), but also repairing the damage”
Can the two parties agree?
“We can even agree so that there is no conviction in the end,” acknowledges Juan Antonio Loste. And his Greenpeace colleague, José Manuel Marraco, assumes it: “If you decontaminate we can reach an agreement. It is not only the punitive effect (of the regulations) but also repairing the damage.” In fact, he defends that environmentalists are “the voice without a voice” and companies have the best lawyers. “But We are civilized and orderly people. We do not talk about the laws before they come out but after and we value them,” defends the lawyer from Zaragoza.
Juan Antonio Loste, from Uria Menéndez, maintains: “We are united by environmental protection, although José Manuel (the Greenpeace lawyer) works with other operators and I with the industrial sector. “Everyone is interested in carrying out their activity in the most sustainable way possible.”
What is the difference between pollution from the industrial sector and agriculture?
The CHE Water Commissioner defends that “industrial pollution is in the hands of competent technicians hired by consulting firms who do decontamination work to prevent more in the future.” “They are more controlled and work is being done to decontaminate them. For example, all old gas stations have some contamination underneath and the new ones are made so that they do not have that,” he points out.
But when talking about “nitrates” from agriculture, San Román points out that “they are quite controlled in the Ebro basin, but the problem is knowing the origin and that is the responsibility of the Autonomous Community.”
On the other hand, the CHE commissioner explains that there are contaminants such as “hydrocarbons” that float in groundwater and they are not easy to extract, and others are denser and are at the bottom of the aquifers, as happened with lindane in Sabiñánigo, complicated to extract “because they get into the fractures of the rocks.” “When you decontaminate at the beginning you find the worst but as the years go by it becomes more difficult,” he adds.
Uría Menéndez’s lawyer is very clear that “The industrial operator does not want to be pointed out as the polluter.” but rather he wants to surface it in a friendly procedure and reconcile with the hydraulic Administration, which has very strong public action to demand everything from you.” “Because these people are sensible, in the end they end up defining practical solutions,” he points out.
Juan Antonio Loste points out that “if an industrialist is imposed severely, he receives sympathy in society, but if they do it to the livestock sector, they cut off the Gran Vía with tractors.” “It’s not that simple and they have my sympathy,” he says, because he recognizes that the agricultural sector has been regularized to redirect it and plays a fundamental role in the balance of the territory. “Coming from where we come from and making those aquifers affected by nitrates safe is not from today to tomorrow,” he acknowledges.
“The Ebro is cleaner than 30 years ago because the treatment plants that began in the 90s, such as those of Almozara, La Cartuja or Huerva, arrived and have improved the condition of the rivers”
Is Aragón better than other communities in this control?
For Juan Antonio Loste, the situation in Aragon, like that of Catalonia and the Basque Country, and the recovery of the aquifers by the Ebro Hydrographic Conference “is much better and there are other communities whose situation is a wasteland.”
While Javier San Román, water commissioner of the CHE, maintains that “The Ebro is cleaner than 30 years ago because the treatment plants that began in the 90s, such as those of Almozara, La Cartuja or Huerva, arrived and have improved the state of the rivers.”
Regarding José Manuel Marraco, he is aware of “the efforts made by certain people in the Administration in Aragon because there is some indolence in dragging along an outdated model that is disappearing.” Even so, he emphasizes that “there is no need to make a legislative avalanche between national regulations, European regulations, international agreements and those of the 17 communities.” “It’s a question of effectiveness. We must have an Administration in accordance with the media,” he points out.
Do more details unite them than separate them?
It seems to the Barcelona lawyer representing the industrial sector that “they are united by environmental prevention from different perspectives” and they want “one of the historically forgotten vectors to be taken care of.”
“We are procedural antagonists, but we defend article 45 (of the Constitution) from NGOs and companies and we agree that the environment should be a fundamental right and not a guiding principle because it would enable us to seek protection and other resources.” issues,” emphasizes the Greenpeace defender. “We must have historical memory and congratulate Doñana’s photo so that it appears in all communities.”
José Manuel Marraco concludes that in the environment “we must move forward and have hope”, and remembers the celebration of COP28 in Dubai.
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