Putin’s blitzkrieg has failed. Now trench warfare. Then partisan war? More and more women, children and old people are also escaping to Germany. Frank Plasberg wants to do something: “Fleeing from Putin: How can we help?”
The guests
▶︎ Saskia Esken (60, SPD). The party leader sticks to it: “Unfortunately, stopping energy imports from Russia cannot be done overnight.”
▶︎ Katja Kipping (44, left). Berlin’s Senator for Social Affairs reports up to 10,000 Ukrainian refugees every day: “It’s high time that nationwide distribution came!”
▶︎ Vassili Golod (29). The WDR journalist with Russian-Ukrainian roots tested positive an hour before the show and is therefore involved in the discussion from a WDR office.
▶︎ Markus Kaim (53). The political scientist warns: “Putin is now expanding the war into western Ukraine.”
▶︎ Sergei Osachuk (50). The governor of Chernivtsi in the southwest sounds the alarm: “If Putin attacks our nuclear power plants, all of Europe will suffer the consequences!”
▶︎ Prof. Dirk Reinhardt. The chief physician cares for children from the Ukraine who are suffering from cancer.
We still have room for improvement militarily, but we’re pretty far ahead humanitarianally. Is there a dispute about this? The Zoff-O-Meter is excited!
Most shocking situation report
Deputy Mayor Sergej Orlow is connected from Mariupol, which was particularly brutally bombed. “Actually, our city no longer exists,” he comments on the frightening consequences of Russian air raids. “Grozny, Aleppo: That’s how it looks in our city now.”
“This is a signature of Russian warfare in recent years,” notes expert Kaim. “We are dealing with a great deal of ruthlessness towards the civilian population.” Ruthlessness? Isn’t that too mild?
Superfluous punctuation marks
“Once Kyiv is surrounded, we can assume that it will take 10 to 14 days for the city to fall,” predicts Kaim.
“Despite all the heroic struggle of the Ukrainian army in quotes,” the expert then adds, “that will probably not be enough against naked violence.” In quotes? These fighters certainly don’t deserve to have their heroism reduced to quotation marks!
Most unusual wording
“We have already crossed the red lines of German foreign policy by delivering arms to a war zone,” says Esken, but “we shouldn’t do anything to expand the conflict beyond the Ukrainian border.” That also needs practice: “conflict” sounds more like it according to Kremlin-speak, with tens of thousands dead!
At least the SPD leader finds the right term for Putin’s actions: “We have to see that this brutality will continue,” she warns. “We have to support with everything we can.”
Most surprising answer
Plasberg pricks his ears: “But no NATO soldiers in Ukrainian territory!” he wants to make sure.
But the SPD leader does not let herself be slowed down: “I believe that we have now arrived in a situation where we should never say ‘never’ to anything,” she replies toughly, “because we don’t know how developments will continue.” Ui! Has this been agreed with the chancellor?
“But based on the current status, that would be a contribution to escalation,” adds Esken, “and we should be very, very careful there.”
Strongest tobacco
Plasberg still can’t believe his ears: “I listened carefully,” he comments. “That’s not a no!”
The political scientist snorts and smiles uncertainly, but the SPD leader stays on course: “The situation is such that we can’t really say ‘never’ about anything,” she repeats, “because we don’t know how the situation will develop.”
“But for now, we still have hope that we have the ability to end this warfare,” she adds, “in the state it’s in now.” Man, man!
Saddest goodbye
As an illustration, Plasberg shows pictures from Kharkiv: “This is the birthplace of our guest Vassili Golod,” he explains. “I don’t even know if he can see the pictures in his office now.”
He can, and he is correspondingly depressed: “Large parts of the center destroyed, important buildings destroyed,” he complains. “It just hurts to see that. It generally hurts to see pictures like that, but when you’ve been to these places like I did, it just hurts twice as much.”
Photo: ARD
” data-zoom-src=”https://bilder.bild.de/fotos/vassili-golod-adb2934c775e49878a2061e76edcb6c9-79455120/Bild/1.bild.jpg”/> Vassili GolodPhoto: ARD
Most Overdue Rubdown
“People who are now wondering and saying, man, a few months ago Putin was just a normal guy, they’re wrong,” the journalist complains, and Esken nods vigorously.
Golod’s sharp artillery: “Unfortunately, there are parts of the SPD and parts of the Left Party that in recent years in German discourse have repeatedly contributed to Putin’s policy being legitimized with double standards, along the lines of: Well, that’s just so in Russia.”
Most Emotional Charge
“It breaks my heart twice over,” the journalist continues, “when I see that Ukraine, the country where I was born, has been largely destroyed and that Russia, the country where my grandfather still lives , losing more and more freedoms and isolating himself through Vladimir Putin’s policies.”
Plasberg finds rather mild words for those criticized: “You just mentioned the Left Party and the SPD,” he says to Golod, but “it’s also a positive human characteristic that you can admit mistakes.” Amen!
Most dramatic portrayal
“Two and a half weeks ago on Thursday, Putin’s brutal war of aggression began. The day after, I immediately decided that Berlin must now open its hearts and arms and be there for the war refugees,” reports Kipping.
“Since then,” the senator continued, “every day has been a mad race, because we realize that there are a lot of people coming, and that’s just the beginning. Acting responsibly means being optimistic, but also always assuming the worst case scenario.” Right!
Most oppressive front report
“On the first day of the war, early in the morning, rockets exploded 80 kilometers from here, and the wave of explosions reached my apartment,” reports Governor Osachuk from Chernivtsi. “No one is safe in Ukraine anymore. There is no longer a quiet minute.”
His clear demand: “The house is on fire in Europe. Please give us firefighting squads and not cleaning staff! As important as it is to care for refugees, we must do more to address the root causes. You have to speak plain language: It is a genocide!”
Photo: ARD
” data-zoom-src=”https://bilder.bild.de/fotos/sergei-osachuk-gouverneur-von-czernowitz-9ba483c003c641ac954275cad25785bf-79455116/Bild/1.bild.jpg”/> Sergei Osachuk, Governor of ChernivtsiPhoto: ARD
Main note
“According to the UN Charter, Ukraine not only has the right to defend itself, but it can also invite foreign powers to support it,” the political scientist clarifies. “The Russian side did that in 2015 by being invited by the Syrian side.”
Kaim’s sweeping conclusion: “It would therefore be perfectly legal to send troops from Western countries into combat, or at least to station them on Ukrainian territory.”
Scariest News
In addition, according to Kaim, “there has been a not unjustified concern for a few days that the Russian side is using weapons of mass destruction. chemical weapons or biological weapons. That comes from the American secret services. A lot can be said about them, but they have been excellently informed in recent months and have predicted a great deal.”
“But then,” the expert continues, “I could imagine that a cry would go through the western metropolises: Now someone has to do something!” But that’s speculation. Oof!
The SPD leader praises Kaim: “Ms. Esken was honest enough to say: It would be presumptuous to rule out things in the third week of the war that the Federal Republic might consider necessary in week 17. We have to keep these options open.” Boom!
Groteskester Gendersprech
“I’m somehow looking for a positive ending to this conversation,” groans Plasberg in an interview with the governor. But the deep sigh of the talk show host does not arouse any sympathy from Kaim: “I remain skeptical,” judges the expert on the chances of peace soon and scoffs: “I’ll ruin your evening completely.”
His serious encore: “It is the great hope that we have that we will have a regime change in Moscow next week, and the new ruler is planning a peace agreement with Ukraine.” Heidewitzka!
Most moving pictures
The last clip shows the arrival of children with cancer from the Ukraine in Cologne. “They worry about the fathers who stayed behind,” says Prof. Reinhardt.
His diagnosis: “We not only have to take care of the cancer treatment, but also of the trauma that the children, the families, the siblings have suffered.” Sad realization: “We will not be able to heal all children. Children who could no longer be helped have also arrived in Berlin.”
Strangest question
“This massive test right away!” Plasberg radioed the SPD leader at the end. “Have you sometimes wished that Ms. Merkel was still there and that structures that were more practiced were available in this crisis situation?”
What is the talk show host thinking with such a question? “I am very, very happy that Olaf Scholz is our Chancellor,” Esken replies dryly. That means: Now it’s managed as ordered and no longer memorized!
quote of the evening
“UNO, OSCE, EU, NATO: all these organizations are yesterday’s news. Each one has to prove itself anew, like Ukraine proved itself in battle.” Sergei Osachuk
Conclusion
Balanced analyses, courageous statements and moving reports, but unfortunately also a self-centered performer with a penchant for tasteless jokes. Nevertheless, a talk in the category “usable for war”.