Dreadlocks, certain tattoos or clothes: when white people adorn themselves with symbols of historically oppressed groups, for example African cultures, this is considered cultural appropriation. The historian Olivette Otele has been dealing with the relationship between the continents for a long time. She teaches history of slavery at Bristol University. Her book “African Europeans” caused a sensation in Great Britain. In Germany she was recently invited to a congress. This gave the opportunity to meet her in Berlin.
Ms. Otele, you wrote a whole book about it – but if you had to explain in three sentences what African Europeans are, what would you say?
Oh, that’s a challenge, not only for me as a scientist. So, you know the term “African Americans,” so break that down as African Americans, which is different. And so we come to the African Europeans. Good this way?
In the introduction you write that the term could be understood as a provocation. Why?
Because I don’t write “Afropean”. There are several reasons for that. Coming back to African Americans, there is historical weight behind this term. The struggles, the resistance, the survival. i play with it Europe and Africa are now thought of as separate entities, with fixed borders. But that wasn’t always the case. The book is about encounters between different populations who live in spaces that used to be more changeable than we think.
Are the borders tighter today?
It is not without reason that we speak of “Fortress Europe”.
And is that a recent development?
We’ve had this shift since the 18th century. With enslavement, European colonial conquest. Europeans traveled the globe to find prosperity and wealth while completely regulating black and brown bodies in Europe. Decided who is allowed to enter and who isn’t.
And, were people provoked by the term “African Europeans”?
Yes. Most Europeans of African origin do not identify with it, they do not see themselves that way. Of course that’s okay. I don’t want to impose a definition on anyone. But I want to offer one that works for me.
Because you were born in Cameroon and grew up in France?
I see myself as both African and European. I grew up with the idea of a strong Europe. That’s why I see myself as a French, European person. But the fact that I am European is often denied to me by the majority of society in Europe. Because she thinks I can’t be European after all. Not “originally” European.
How does that show?
In France they say you are French with this or that origin. Which means in many people’s minds: You are second-class French. Not really French. Well, that’s racism. But I claim both identities.
The subtitle of your book is “An Untold Story”. A number of books on Black history and anti-racism have been published in recent years. What do you think was missing?
Let’s look at Italy, for example. Alessandro de’ Medici was an African European. In Italy people know that. Not in France, not in Britain. So it is with many historical figures, of whom few are aware that they were also Africans. That is why their stories are told and not told at the same time.
Many of the stories are those of individual, sometimes famous, people. Why do you question the popular term “uniqueness”?
That comes from personal experience. In 2018, I became the first black woman to hold a history professorship in the UK. I was shocked by the fact that I was considered an exception. I was this extraordinary person, but it made me feel disconnected from my community that had worked very hard in the past. I was identified and told you were good, but that meant I wasn’t representative of my community. I find that very painful.
Which community has influenced your life?
First of all, my incredible grandmother, a storyteller and feminist. She was native African. It was very formative for my understanding of social justice. But she and her life were, among other things, a result of German colonization. She explained to me that as human beings we are also the product of traumatic experiences and that it is what we make of our trauma that matters.
What does that mean for you?
to write this book! I want to show that 20 centuries of black history is not just about slavery. This shows how the view of people of African descent has changed. Things were not rosy in the 15th and 16th centuries, but you can see a big change in the narrative of people of African descent from the time they were enslaved and colonized. Colonial slavery changed the perspective on all non-European populations.
Is this how we still see the world?
We inherited this look from the 20th century. Which is based on discrimination, exclusion and racism. But the younger generations no longer accept that. I think of my students. They fight fiercely against it.
In the book you write that millennials in particular are fighting racism without making use of the experiences of their ancestors. What are the implications of this for her?
Sometimes I think they repeat the mistakes. While they take to the streets and protest for social justice, some don’t vote. Even if there is sometimes little difference between the candidates, not using your voice means that the people you are fighting will make the decisions for you. Some protests are also exclusive. Especially at demonstrations, however, we should not exclude anyone. And not just separating black and white sections of the population.
It happens that marginalized groups consciously claim their own space. In Germany, in recent years, the accusation that these groups are sealing themselves off has often come up under the heading of identity politics.
So far it has been the majority societies that have practiced exclusion. They’ve been excluded for centuries. To have the nerve when minority groups want safe spaces, really — to have the nerve to say that would be exclusionary is hypocrisy. It’s the wrong debate.
What is wrong?
We focus on groups of people who have held power for centuries and who now feel like victims? Because other groups are emerging, raising their voices? I have no sympathy for that.
Millennials are said to be much more conscious of not just race but gender than they were 50 years ago…
Oh, I do not know. What I show in my book is that there have always been strong female voices. In the 20th century, for example, the Nadal sisters. I want people to understand that where we are today, we are standing on the shoulders of these women. I say women now, but actually I’m talking about LGBTIQ. The fight must be inclusive. The marginalized are better united today in the struggle for equality.
In the book you distinguish between “racism” and “racism”.
Racism means that there are differences between members of a society. Racism is when you build a hierarchy between these differences. Some say that as soon as you make differences, you already create hierarchies. That’s how it is in France. There they say race does not exist – and it is really not a scientific category. It is a social construct, we humans created the hierarchies. In everyday life, however, people have experiences of distinction. So exists race yet. It is true for sufferers.
Is that why you criticize the term “color blindness”?
In France we are all supposed to be equal, as if everyone benefits from the benevolence and kindness of the Republic. In truth, that is not the case. Racism affects people’s health, impoverishing them for something they are not responsible for, like the color of their skin.
In Germany, too, there was a debate about the term “race”, whether it should be included in the Basic Law or whether its use is already discriminatory. Should we delete this category?
The idea that racism would go away by removing the term is naïve. I think you need stronger victim protection, the law has to take tougher action when it comes to social, real racism. And we unfortunately need a term to express discrimination based on a person’s “ethnicity”. We must be able to name the discrimination.
The history of African Europeans is also a history of migration. What is expected as a condition of being accepted into a society?
In France and Germany, people are supposed to forget who they were before. Your children should forget that too. In other words, you have to deny part of your identity in order to conform to the majority. But she will never accept you as part of her company anyway. They will always know that you have other identities. So it is an insoluble contradiction that is imposed on you.
You also write about beauty norms in the context of resistance. What do you mean by that?
Bodies, especially women’s, are places where they can express themselves. And even if someone cannot express themselves, the body is a place of oppression, and therefore also a place of resistance. It reflects everything we do. We feel pain in our bodies. Our mental health is affected by it. How we look is a symbol.
Speaking of looks. In Germany there is a debate about “cultural appropriation”. Recently, a white woman became a musician because of her dreadlocks from a concert unloaded.
I have different opinions on this. There are these white women who wear cornrows, like the Charlie Angel guy, they wear it as jewelry, to an event, and everyone thinks how beautiful they are. But when Black women wore these hairstyles before, they were said to be too “ethnic,” too specific. I find this hypocrisy blatant. But if a white musician has dreadlocks, I’d like to know where that person stands before I rule them out. Maybe it’s a statement. If someone wears dreadlocks for ten years – that’s hard work.
So you would draw a line there?
To someone who feels called to wear an African dress for just one day to be pretty, I want to say it goes deeper than that. Often the fabric means something to a particular group. But I would never exclude people for wearing dreadlocks. It’s an instructive moment. It’s the moment when you start talking.
You write that racism can be overcome through education, but also through encounters. How, then, can societies engage in dialogue to overcome the traumas of colonialism and slavery—those who were oppressed and those who are descendants of the oppressors? And also those where it is not so clear?
We shy away from a hard discussion about restorative justice. It’s not just about handing over sums of money or bringing back stolen works of art. It’s about repairing damage, mentally, economically, on a gender level, and so on. If you’re not white today, male, or if you’re upper class, life is definitely a bit more difficult for you. So when we’re over race talk, we also need to talk about gender. And about classes. First of all, we must acknowledge the damage. That’s why we have to tell these stories. Not doing so would only be a postponement.