Alexander Osang was the first journalist to have a conversation with Chancellor Angela Merkel after she left office. The main focus was on Russia’s war in Ukraine. We spoke to Osang about his impressions the day after.
Mr. Osang, how are you feeling after the conversation with Angela Merkel?
To be honest, I’m really glad it’s over now. The evening seems pretty unreal to me right now. Everything just rushed past me. I’m relieved.
Did the conversation go as you expected?
When Aufbau-Verlag asked me three weeks ago if I wanted to do this interview, it was about an evening at the theatre. I’ve got this under control, I thought. I’m not a TV man and don’t want to be one. But then it got bigger and bigger. Lots of journalists, TV broadcast, live! These things brought in more impact and light than I wanted. But then it worked. I would have even liked to talk a little longer.
But our time was up when I was halfway through asking my questions. As I said, it was the first time I did something like this. In the end it was actually quite good for that, I thought. We got talking, it wasn’t this questioning. Inside, in the theater at least, I think it worked. The director of the Berliner Ensemble then told me that we had very good chemistry. I don’t know whether, as a reporter from Der Spiegel, you should take that as a compliment. But I’ll do it now.
How did you feel about Angela Merkel that evening?
It was new to her too. I’ve typically experienced her in spaces that she could relatively control. The talks took place in the Chancellery, in their familiar surroundings. She was the hostess. But I also interviewed her a long time ago on an ICE train. You could tell that the Berliner Ensemble wasn’t their environment. And you noticed that she has not spoken publicly for a long time.
I have to say that these were good conditions for a conversation. This loss of institutional authority. We only met shortly before the interview, for the first time after she left office, five minutes before the start of the discussion. At first I read out a text I had written about Angela Merkel. She was waiting behind the curtain for her appearance. Uncomplaining, but somehow irritated. It was all pretty bumpy, I liked it. But of course Angela Merkel realized during the evening that the people came for her, that it was a kind of home game. Then she was able to say the things she had planned to say, I think. And I let her finish. It was not intended as an interview with a reporter, but as a theater talk.
Was there anything that surprised you? An answer? A gesture?
There were a few small things. About her answer to the question about her tremors. I asked this question relatively early and was afraid that she would say that she didn’t want to talk about it. But she has. Even when I confronted her with the questions that Andriy Melnyk, the Ukrainian ambassador in Berlin, had sent me that morning, she reacted relatively calmly. She wasn’t upset but tried to react. I found her answer to the accusation that she had gone to Florence and not to Bucha interesting. She immediately provided a line of argument, right up to the Renaissance. She was only on vacation in Italy for a few days. is she allowed to do that Now?
What actually interested me as a reporter: How does someone deal with the loss of power who was one of the most powerful people in the world for 16 years? Suddenly she is walking along the Baltic Sea in winter and is listening to Macbeth as an audio book. How do you strip off the mantle of power? That’s what I was about. I’m sure people were waiting for something else. Everyone on something different. But I was the host.
Were there taboos or agreements beforehand?
No, nothing at all. There was this time that we should keep. The 90 minutes. That’s all.
What question would you like to have asked?
I had prepared a thick eastern bloc. We were in this Eastern theater, the publisher comes from the East, we are both Easterners. I would have liked to have spoken about the speech she gave on October 3, 2021, on the 31st anniversary of German unity, on the state of that unity, about her as an East German. There was a vulnerability in that speech, including injuries inflicted on her that she rarely spoke about. Actually only at the beginning of her career.
I looked at an old interview of her from 1991, when she was clearly an Easterner. Maybe she saw that as a weakness. could i understand I got the impression that as her career progressed she became a bit homeless. I would have liked to talk more about that. I would have liked to ask: How much can you actually expect of your people?
Berliner Zeitung / Paulus Ponizak
Chancellor a. D. Angela Merkel in conversation with Alexander Osang in the Berlin Ensemble.
Were you surprised that Angela Merkel chose you to talk to?
I think it was more like Aufbau Verlag that chose me. But she went along with it. It surprised me a bit, because in recent years she hasn’t wanted to talk to me anymore, with me as a Spiegel reporter.
You went out to dinner that night. How was the privacy?
It never gets really private. There is actually no non-public part when you go out with Angela Merkel in Berlin. We continued to talk about the war. So mostly her. I was pretty exhausted. She became more and more alert.
My impression was that Angela Merkel was very tense for the first 30 minutes. After that she seemed more relaxed.
I liked the disturbing at first. She hasn’t spoken in a long time. She had expected questions about the war, but I started with private things, with walks on the beach on the Baltic Sea.
Do you have the impression that you understand Merkel better because of your East German origins?
For some things, yes, it helps. I also know the distrust she has. Where do you say what? That was a key experience in the East. Different languages were used for different social areas. Especially when you grow up in a pastor’s household like her. I was an altar boy in the Catholic Church. I get that, I think. You learned early on that you spoke differently in the parish than in school. And then there is a shared background of experience. Sometimes these are words. Then Merkel asked me if I had served.
I have, I said, I was a private in the NVA. Of course, national people’s army sounds strange today, barbaric. 30 years ago it had a more everyday ring to it. This helps. There is a basic understanding. But these are just small things. We were both born in the East but have lived very different lives. Not all Easterners are the same either.
Thank you for the interview.