Vienna summit on the ban on nuclear weapons: "France refuses dialogue"

While the war continues in eastern Ukraine, Vienna hosts for three days, until June 23, the first meeting of the signatory states of the UN Treaty on the prohibition of nuclear weapons (Tian). More than a hundred countries participate, but not France. Jean-Marie Collin, spokesperson for the International Campaign to Abolish Nuclear Weapons (Ican), regrets this empty chair policy and returns for L’Express to the theme of military waste left by France in Algeria and Polynesia. A folder on which opacity persists.

L’Express: What are the themes addressed in Vienna by the 122 signatory countries of the Tian Treaty?

Jean-Marie Collin : The States present are considering a disarmament agenda, that is to say the time that we would grant to the nuclear powers in order to offload their arsenal. Another important point which directly impacts France, the rehabilitation of test sites used in the past and the measures necessary to help the populations. Discussions are developing, for example, around the idea of an international fund dedicated to this task.

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Other questions of financing are addressed since the treaty prohibits the financial institutions of the signatory States from supporting companies whose activity contributes closely to nuclear deterrence. Some sixty banks around the world have already made this commitment. Among them, the Deutsche Bank, Norwegian, Dutch and Swedish funds… More generally, the Vienna event also aims to expand the number of signatory countries.

No state possessing nuclear weapons is taking part in this UN meeting. But could it be otherwise with the war in Ukraine?

We are indeed in a particular context: a State with the nuclear strike force attacks another State. Moreover, the Russian president continues to threaten the rest of the world with his arsenal. However, dialogue with the main nuclear powers has always been extremely complicated, even before the conflict in Ukraine. Since 2011, France, but also the United Kingdom and the United States have refused any participation in the process that allowed the treaty to succeed. These countries even organized a press conference denouncing the fact that States were meeting to work for the prohibition of nuclear weapons! More than a refusal of dialogue, it is therefore a question of a desire to keep their arsenal.

In Vienna, we still receive a few observer states such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Norway and Switzerland. These member countries of NATO – or which aspire to join it – attend the meetings, demonstrating a desire for dialogue. For their part, the member states of the treaty have clearly understood that nuclear weapons pose an international security problem. Today we need to think about disarmament. Not to its contrary.

In two recent reports, you denounce the opacity of the military waste left by France in Algeria and Polynesia. Has this work moved the lines?

We see some positive developments. In a recent report by the Parliamentary Office for the Evaluation of Scientific and Technological Choices devoted to the next version of the national plan for the management of radioactive materials and waste, a paragraph mentions the problem. Entitled “De facto military nuclear power exempted from transparency obligations”, it is no more than half a page, but that is enough to lay the foundations for reflection and future exchanges. Another encouraging element is the opening since July 2021 of archives in Polynesia. Some 35,000 documents must be declassified. A part – the most sensitive because linked to the way of producing an atomic weapon – will be redacted. However, the overwhelming majority of documents should be searchable. In this mass, we hope to find, for example, the exact list of “oceanized” radioactive material.

Are things progressing at the same pace regarding Algeria?

Alas no. On this side, the archives remain closed. However, we were able to demonstrate a voluntary landfill policy on the part of France in the 1960s. What happens to this waste? If they are still there, our country must at least provide the Algerian authorities with information on the places concerned and the quantities. But all this remains secret. However, the Algerian State created in May 2021 a specific agency to rehabilitate the former nuclear test sites. Algeria is also getting ready to join the Tian Treaty. And we know that this country has twice asked the French authorities to officially provide it with maps of the sites where waste is buried. There is therefore an awareness and a more intense communication work than in the past.

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Can we clean it all up?

No. The objective is to clean up what is feasible: for example, to remove a certain thickness of earth or sand containing radioactive elements. It is also necessary to explain to the public the danger of certain areas, even if it means preventing them from accessing them. In Algeria, there are places where you cannot stay more than a few minutes due to the high rate of radioactivity. This is obviously a big problem from the point of view of the environment and the safety of the populations living nearby. We observe the same thing in Polynesia. There, it must be understood that the tests were conducted in the air, on a barge or under water. In the very heart of the lagoon, wells have been dug and weapons have been detonated inside. These areas are impossible to rehabilitate but we can reinforce the work of measurement and warning systems in order to avoid possible future problems such as the cracking of the lagoon leading to the discharge of radioactive waste into the sea, or even a tsunami. The formulation is hardly satisfactory but we can still do things to ensure that the environment is the “cleanest possible”.