The war against Ukraine found Tatyana Lazareva in Kyiv. The well-known TV presenter and public figure has taken an active stance against the Kremlin’s policies. She defends her opinion in social networks and is not afraid of haters. According to Lazareva, an aggressive agenda is being imposed in the Russian Federation and it is difficult for Russians to be under absolute propaganda oppression. Tatyana would like to change Russia. But she admits that her hands dropped and there is not enough energy. She temporarily left for Spain and does not yet see the point in returning to Russia.
– Tatyana, Russia today is…
– Oh, Russia today is the aggressor. Actually, it has been like this for a long time. But, again, what is Russia? It’s not just the top that makes the decision. This is a huge number of different ordinary people. I have a lot of sympathy for the people who live there. It cannot be called life. It’s a lie that you have everything in the stores and you don’t need anything else. Because a person needs confidence in the future, peace of mind, some basic things. Now there are so many terrible cases when people go to war on a contract in order, for example, to close loans. This is some kind of atrocity. This is the worst thing that is happening in Russia right now. The government is directing a very aggressive policy not only outwards, but also inwards, against these people. And this is not love, this is such contempt! Not even hate.
Tatyana Lazareva at DW studio in Bonn
– You wrote on Instagram that Russia is a kind of organism,which is being cleaned. How do you imagine it?
– Like poisoning: when you recover, at some point, toxins begin to come out of you – and you are cleansed. That’s what’s happening to people right now. They may not even want to, but some kind of gag reflex is triggered from within. And it overwhelms everyone: both themselves and the whole space around. The whole society is in some kind of malice and aggression. This not normal. So people can not live long, you get tired of it. An aggressive agenda is being imposed. And people would like to live in peace, with dignity. Even, maybe they don’t want to live with dignity, maybe they have already forgotten what dignity is. Because all the words that are now used have already lost their entire meaning. Patriotism is no longer patriotism, love for the motherland is dislike for the motherland … But the word “dignity”, perhaps, needs to be used less now, so that it also does not lose its true meaning. But this is a very important human trait – to live with dignity. Not everyone is available right now.
When the motherland does not love you and shows it in every possible way, it is very difficult to continue to accept it and turn a blind eye to everything. What for? And how will my children live in this country? It turns out that my children will not live in this country in the near future. And this does not correspond to my principles of love for the motherland. I myself would like to live there. Rarely do people leave of their own free will. But now almost everyone is fleeing from there. There is no way to stay there and convey something, to say that I don’t like this, let’s discuss it and I will help fix it – I am ready to suffer, work, build something new. This possibility is not available now. And so everything falls apart.
– What support can Germany and other European countries give to those who are against the war?
– I don’t like what is happening now in Germany and in other European countries: the blocking of Russian people, the fact that they can do almost nothing here. It takes a lot of effort to do something. For example, it is generally impossible to obtain a work permit. What Europe can do for Ukraine is understandable, and everything it does is wonderful. But in general, various refugees are fleeing from Putin: Ukrainians, Russians, and Belarusians. All! And here, in Europe, this is… I don’t really like it, but, again, everyone has their own reasons.
– You are taking an active position. Someone on social networks supports you, but youyou get a lot of insults. How do you deal with the hate wave?
– I have been living with this heit for so many years that I have become calm, like a tank. I feel sorry for my subscribers, a huge amount of hate is also directed at them. For some reason, they enter into some kind of explanation. I say: “Guys, don’t!” Although … once I had a funny case. I contacted a couple. They are at me: “Die, creature! Die, scum!” And I tell them: “Hello, what happened? What happened to you? Can you help with something?” And somehow, in the process of correspondence, we quite came to an apology from the other side.
– Your friends in Ukraine have already started producing humorous programs. Can you joke too?
– Yes, I participate in them, I can already, yes. There are moments when you are so scared and so hurt, for example, that you can’t laugh. But as soon as the pain recedes, the fear also recedes, and when you exhale, you are no longer so scared. Then, only when it begins to recede, life begins. A person in a state of shock freezes, as if he is not him. This is a normal reaction to stress and shock. Life is about the fact that yes, there is pain, but there is not pain. There are tears and there is laughter. Always so. In life, there cannot be only one laughter or one pain all the time.
Is there anything you would never laugh at or joke about?
– I will never laugh at the weaker. It’s to laugh. I had a blind father. And we joked about it. Not like “ha-ha-ha, you’re blind!” There are different types of laughter. You can support with laughter, and with jokes: let’s laugh together – and then you, too, will not be so scared and not so painful. But there is – I do not own this – derogatory laughter. I terribly dislike these fashionable now, as they are called, “roasting”, when all sorts of “funny nasty things” are said about you – personal life, creativity, appearance.
– You live in Spain. Do you like it there?
– I do not live in Spain, I temporarily went there!
– Do you want to return to Russia?
– In principle, I can return right now. No one at the airport will slow me down, I’m not Alexei Navalny or Ilya Yashin. I will quickly get out, sit in a taxi and drive home. But I won’t go anytime soon. What for? My children have already left. What is there to do? Nobody needs me in Russia. Well, okay, nobody needs me in Spain either, but at least it’s nicer there.
– By the way, some of your colleagues travel around Europe on tour. What are your creative plans?
– I have no creative plans for a long time. But if you think about the great thing that I would like to do, then this is to change Russia, to make Russia ours. But my hands have dropped so much that my energy alone is not enough yet. Well, maybe there are others.
– And what would it be – Russia 2.0?
– There is very little love. There would just be a lot of love for all people. People are worthy of love, they must be loved from childhood and let them know that they are needed, that they are good.
– And hug eight times a day?
– Yes, and pat. Yes, this is how it should be with everyone!
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