Bonobos founder Andy Dunn is back in the game, this time crafting an in-person social platform called Pie. But the most valuable insights he gleaned from the $310 million Bonobos exit have less to do with entrepreneurial tactics and more to do with safeguarding mental wellbeing.
Dunn’s journey with bipolar disorder began in college, but it wasn’t until a second manic episode culminating in hospitalization in 2016 that he sought proper treatment.
“During mania, it’s pure chaos – a kind of psychosis with delusional grandeur,” Dunn shared on stage at TechCrunch Disrupt 2024. “Productivity is impossible in that state.” This wake-up call, sixteen years after his initial diagnosis, finally spurred Dunn to prioritize his mental health, embracing therapy, medication, and sleep hygiene.
Dunn’s book, “Burn Rate: Launching a Startup and Losing My Mind,” chronicles the parallel journeys of building Bonobos and learning to manage his bipolar disorder. While his story is deeply personal, the lessons resonate far beyond those with the same diagnosis.
“We all have mental health, whether or not we have a formal diagnosis,” he emphasizes.
Statistics show that entrepreneurs tend to report a higher incidence of mental health challenges than the general population.
“There’s definitely a link between neurodiversity and creativity,” he observes. “It’s unclear whether entrepreneurship attracts neurodivergent individuals or if the demands of entrepreneurship itself fosters neurodiversity, but there’s undeniably a complex interplay at work.”
Dunn acknowledges this intricate relationship between mental health and entrepreneurship, noting that the hypomanic state – the elevated side of bipolar disorder – can fuel startup energy.
“Think about the DSM criteria for hypomania: rapid speech, a flurry of ideas, heightened self-belief, reduced need for sleep, and boosted creativity – pretty much the quintessential description of an entrepreneur on a roll,” Dunn explains. “I benefitted from that, but the price I paid was steep. I experienced two to three months of suicidal depression per year, ultimately leading to full-blown mania and psychosis.”
Even at his most productive, Dunn reflects that he wasn’t the best boss or teammate during hypomanic episodes. He cites irritability as a common side effect, making collaborative decision-making challenging – a crucial aspect of a successful company. Now, leading Pie, he embraces dissenting opinions.
“When disagreements arise, let’s delve deeper – the more robust the debate, the better the decision we’ll reach,” he asserts.
While conversations around mental health are more open, founders still worry about the stigma attached to disclosing a diagnosis to colleagues and investors. Dunn is an advisor to the Founder Mental Health Pledge, which encourages investors to champion the mental wellbeing of founders they back. However, he acknowledges that stigma persists – his advice to founders considering disclosure is to wait six weeks after securing funding.
“Would you invest $125 million in someone who could oscillate between psychosis and severe depression?” Dunn asks rhetorically referencing his Bonobos fundraising experience. “But hiding it, like I did, is unwise because when a crisis hits, it’s a surprise.”
Despite his openness about bipolar disorder, Dunn’s ability to raise capital hasn’t been hindered. Pie recently secured a $11.5 million Series A funding round. While candid about the severity of his condition, he emphasizes how therapy and medication allow him to live a stable life.
“I treat bipolar like an Olympic sport. For Simone Biles, it’s about navigating and winning gold,” he compares. “My gold medal is simple – to die of something other than suicide because the heartbreaking reality is the suicide rate associated with bipolar disorder.”
Dunn’s next challenge is to build a successful Pie without compromising his wellbeing.
“The ideal scenario is balanced mental health for ourselves and our teams. But let’s face it, a 40-hour workweek won’t cut it,” he admits. “Changing the world requires more than a standard work week.”
Dunn navigates this tightrope by being transparent with job applicants about the demands of the role and the support systems in place.
“This is a 50- to 60-hour-per-week commitment. In return, you’ll gain invaluable experience, rapid growth, and equity,” he explains during recruitment.
Like any startup leader, Dunn values hard work. But he believes there’s a way to achieve it without self-destruction. Reflecting on Bonobos in “Burn Rate” he writes, “As a naive startup founder, I concluded that if the business wasn’t thriving, we weren’t working hard enough.”
Exceptional work requires tending to oneself – it’s an undeniable part of the hard work equation.
Interview: Navigating Mental Health in Entrepreneurship – A Conversation with Andy Dunn
Tim, Editor of Time.news: Welcome, Andy! It’s great to have you here today. Your journey from Bonobos to launching Pie, and your advocacy for mental health awareness, is truly inspiring. Let’s dive right in. You’ve openly discussed your struggles with bipolar disorder and how it has influenced your entrepreneurial journey. Can you share a bit about how your experience shaped your approach to founding Pie?
Andy Dunn: Thanks, Tim. It’s great to be here. Building Pie has been a fantastic experience, not just as a new business venture but as an opportunity to apply lessons I’ve learned from my journey with mental health. I’ve come to understand that my mental health isn’t just a personal battle; it’s also intertwined with my work and leadership style. At Pie, I prioritize creating an open environment where mental health discussions are welcome. I want the team to feel that they can speak up without fear of stigma or judgment.
Tim: Speaking of stigma, you mentioned in your book, Burn Rate, that entrepreneurs often face higher incidences of mental health challenges. Why do you think there’s such a link between entrepreneurship and mental health issues?
Andy Dunn: That’s a great question. There’s definitely a connection between neurodiversity and creativity, and it’s intriguing to consider whether entrepreneurship attracts neurodivergent individuals or if the demands of starting a business foster those traits. For me, the traits associated with my hypomanic episodes—like heightened energy and creativity—have certainly fueled my entrepreneurial spirit. However, the flipside of that comes with challenges that can impact not just the entrepreneur but their team as well.
Tim: It seems like there’s a fine line between leveraging the energetic aspects of hypomania and managing the downsides. You mentioned in your talk at TechCrunch Disrupt that during your hypomanic episodes, you weren’t the best boss. How has that realization influenced your leadership style today?
Andy Dunn: I’ve had to confront some tough truths about my past. During those times, my productivity soared, but my irritability often led to strained relationships with my team. Now, I intentionally embrace dissenting opinions and healthy debate. Collaboration is key in building a successful company, and acknowledging that we can benefit from each other’s perspectives leads to better decision-making.
Tim: That’s such a valuable lesson! However, you also highlighted the lingering stigma surrounding mental health issues, especially in the startup ecosystem. As someone who’s experienced this firsthand, what advice would you give to founders who worry about the impact of disclosing their mental health challenges?
Andy Dunn: It’s a difficult decision, and there’s a lot of fear involved. My advice is to prioritize securing funding and establishing a solid track record with your investors first. I often suggest waiting at least six weeks after you’ve been funded before sharing your mental health story. Investors are understandably cautious—who wants to invest millions in someone who might oscillate between extreme states? But the truth is, hiding your challenges can be just as risky. Transparency is essential, especially when a crisis hits; it’s crucial that your team and investors know how to support you.
Tim: So, transparency is key, but timing is also essential. You’ve achieved significant success with your recent funding round for Pie, despite your openness about your diagnosis. What has your experience been with investors in this regard?
Andy Dunn: Surprisingly positive. Many appreciate my candidness because it demonstrates self-awareness and resilience. Admitting struggles with mental health requires immense courage, and when investors see that, they often view it as a sign of strength. It’s a balance, and each situation is unique, but the right investors will value authenticity.
Tim: That’s an empowering perspective, Andy. Before we wrap up, what final piece of advice would you give to entrepreneurs grappling with mental health issues as they navigate their business journeys?
Andy Dunn: One key piece of advice is to prioritize your mental wellbeing just as you would your business objectives. Seek out supportive networks—whether that’s therapy, mentorship, or simply a circle of friends who understand your journey. Remember, we all have mental health, and acknowledging that is the first step towards fostering a healthier work environment. The more we can talk about it, the better equipped we’ll be to create successful, sustainable companies while caring for our mental health.
Tim: Thank you so much for sharing your insights with us, Andy. It’s clear that you’re not just building a company, but a movement towards better mental health in the entrepreneurial space.
Andy Dunn: Thank you, Tim! It’s been a pleasure chatting about these important topics. Let’s keep the conversation going.
