2023-06-19 19:23:23
The cross : Are these ten billion euros of announced savings sufficient in view of the deterioration of our public finances?
Jean-Rene Cazeneuve: These ten billion savings are added to those made by the reforms made on work, pensions, unemployment and will take into account a certain number of hazards. Inflation is starting to drop but some of our neighbors are in recession. We have to be vigilant about the impact this could have on our economy. We therefore need these ten billion to secure our trajectory. And if some find it insufficient, I look forward to their suggestions for savings!
There was therefore an initial review of expenditure. Another will start soon. Is the idea to arrive at a permanent expenditure review process?
J.-R. C. : Precedents have existed, but the expenditure review must be instituted on a regular and long-term basis. We must ask ourselves each year the question of the effectiveness of our expenditure: it is a healthy process which makes it possible to take into account the evolution of priorities or new constraints. Our objectives have changed with the war in Ukraine or with inflation: there are therefore necessarily additional expenses, and others that need to be reviewed.
Not everything can have the same importance. We cannot seek additional investments for the ecological transition without reviewing our priorities.
Some in the majority plead for the inclusion in the orientation law of the finance laws (LOLF) of a “sunset clause” which would automatically limit in time any aid or tax expenditure which would not have proof of its effectiveness. Do you support this idea?
J.-R. C. : Why not: it would be a good innovation. Too often during the long evenings of budgetary discussion, we had the weakness, even if the evaluation had not been done, to prolong expenditure because the pressure was strong.
That said, in the last finance law, and without going so far as to modify the LOLF, we have established a certain number of rules so that any tax expenditure is limited to three years and that any renewal of an expenditure is preceded by a evaluation of its cost, its effectiveness, the number of French people who benefit from it. Something as simple as that is not systematic!
Of course, behind every public aid, there is a beneficiary who does not understand when it is removed. But behind every euro spent, there is a taxpayer who holds us to account. I believe that we can have this discourse of responsibility with the French when we tell them that, when we eliminate an expense, it is also their money that is better used.
The French are more demanding on these issues. The initiative of the Minister of Public Accounts Gabriel Attal “To have for your taxes” is quite revealing of this state of mind: it has become necessary to explain to the French what it costs to go through an operating theater or a year of a high school student. We need to have this dialogue with citizens as well as with local authorities.
On the local authorities, precisely, several of their representatives were absent during these Assizes of public finances. It is indicative of a state of mind…
J.-R. C. : State expenditure represents 450 billion euros; those of local authorities 300 billion euros. We cannot reasonably control our trajectory of public finances without, in one way or another, getting local authorities on board. When we talk about debt, the French don’t care whether it’s that of local authorities or that of the State: they’re the ones who pay!
So we need to work together to find solutions. I therefore appeal to the responsibility of elected officials: how will they participate in the necessary control of public spending in the next five years?
Under François Hollande, there was a cut of eleven billion euros in operating grants for local authorities: we absolutely reject this method. We prefer to empower elected officials to propose solutions and support the control of public spending.
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