Ellen Ueberschär is the co-chair of the Heinrich Böll Stiftung, close to one of Germany’s ruling Soyuz 90 / Greens. In an interview with DW, she spoke about her trip to Moscow in mid-December, solidarity with the human rights organization Memorial, the difficulties of the work of German organizations in Russia and expectations from the new government in Berlin.
German wave: Relations between Russia and the West, Russia and Germany are going through difficult times. This is the threat of a military conflict between the Russian Federation and Ukraine, sanctions, a verdict in the case of high-profile political assassination in Berlin. Your was the trip to Moscow aimed at collecting information and exchanging opinions, or was it an attempt to save what else can be saved?
Ellen Uberscher
Ellen Uberscher: You are right, times are difficult, the more important personal contacts are. The main motivation for my trip to Moscow was to express my solidarity with Memorial, this large human rights organization that is being prosecuted against. Our foundation has been cooperating with Memorial for a long time, so it was important to personally support it. In addition, it was important to exchange opinions with experts, to understand what was going on.
– The Böll Foundation calls “Memorial“ its most important partner in Russia. What implications will its closure have for your organization?
– While we are fighting to ensure that it is not banned, and we call on the Russian leadership to use its influence, and the Russian justice to fulfill its duty to protect civil society. With regard to the future of diversified international activities, it is obvious to us that it will continue. After all, “Memorial” is in many European countries. It is about studying and understanding the history of violence. During the visit, we visited an exhibition organized by Memorial about the life of women in the Gulag. This work must continue.
– The program of your visit included meetings at the Russian Foreign Ministry. WITH by whom and about what did you say?
– We talked with the director of the Europe department – about the state of relations, about contacts. Of course, we talked about Memorial, about the oppression of civil society, about some German organizations that were declared undesirable in Russia this year. We also talked about our projects for the ecological transformation of the economy, about how we can help organize an exchange, attract experts.
– One of the organizations you mentioned – “Center for Liberal Modernity“chaired by your former colleague in the management of the Böll Foundation, Ralph Fucks (Ralf Fücks). Is there a chance for this organization to work in the Russian Federation again? You spoke about this at the Russian Foreign Ministry?
– We raised this topic. It is important for us to say that German-Russian relations cannot develop well when economic contacts are separated from civil society. We made it clear that we on the German side do not understand the division into desirable and undesirable organizations. Cancellation of this decision on organizations close to us is for us a condition for a successful dialogue in other areas as well.
– Your impression – Is the Russian side ready to meet the German side and allow these organizations to return to Russia?
– I think it was important to say it. (The Russian side) has a different perspective, they say, there is a problem of three organizations, but there are laws and it is necessary to concentrate on other areas of cooperation. They were not named, but they are education, science, economics, and so on. Therefore, it was important to exchange views and from our side make it clear that for us civil society is not something that can be taken out of the brackets in German-Russian relations, it is an important element, without which others do not work.
– Speaking of the Böll Foundation, how difficult are the working conditions in Russia now? Are you concerned that your dealership will be declared undesirable – because it was in the air?
– There was such a danger. When the corresponding committee of the State Duma informed the German embassy about the forthcoming assignment of this status and the prohibition of German organizations, our foundation was also called. This was not allowed. At the moment, our impression is that this is not being discussed, but there is no certainty, and it weighs on our employees, who do a great job. There is a lot of uncertainty – what will happen next? There are negative press reports about the activities supported by the Böll Foundation. All this does not help to create an atmosphere of trust. I would like that, in addition to stabilizing the issue of whether our fund will be able to continue working, there was also the possibility of cooperation with Russian partners without fear that they will face difficulties.
– Can the Böll Foundation even work in Russia the way he thinks is right? Where is the red line beyond which you say that under such restrictions further work is impossible?
– It is important for us to work in Russia, to communicate with civil society and departments. We do not have a clear recipe under what conditions we will leave. Everyone admits that German-Russian relations are in bad shape. But you need to work to make them better. Therefore, our strategy is to stay, look for opportunities for communication. There are many people in Russia who want to contact us. International exchange in times of globalization is of great importance for Russia, I will repeat once again the key word – “green transformation”. We want to participate in this as much as possible. Of course, I must admit, there were much more opportunities before. But we stay here and hope that better times will come.
– V Germany changed government, new foreign minister – co-chair “green” Annalena Berbok (Annalena Baerbock). You are the head of a fund, close “green“. Do you expect more support from the FRG Foreign Ministry? What else could the government in Berlin do to support civil society in Russia?
– The Foreign Ministry has supported us before. We hope that in some areas we will be able to more actively offer our knowledge and experience. The topic of climate protection will be one of the most important in foreign policy for the new Foreign Minister. In this regard, we have extensive experience in Russia, many contacts and projects. I see that there is high-level support from civil society, including from the embassy. For example, I see that the German and other embassies of European countries are present at the trials against Memorial. I think that during official visits there will be meetings with representatives of civil society, these are important symbols.
– Madam Uberscher, you grew up in the GDR. How much does today’s Russia remind you that side? It is felt?
– This is not an easy answer. There really is some similarity. For example, people decide what to talk about publicly and what to keep quiet about. But on the other hand, it’s not at all like that. Borders are open, you can go to a good restaurant, you can read Western or opposition media on the Internet. In the communist dictatorship, this was impossible.
– With what feelings do you return to Germany – more optimism or pessimism?
– Both. On the one hand, we state that the situation is very serious, and civil society is preparing for its further deterioration. There are fears that Memorial will be closed. On the other hand, we feel incredible energy in this society, there are so many people with potential who want to develop their country, maintain contacts with Europe and the world. This potential makes me optimistic, but in general, the situation makes me feel pessimistic.
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