Emmanuel Macron wants “the defeat” of Russia, but “without crushing it”. Invited Sunday noon of the “Grand Jury” of LCI, RTL and Figaro, the former President of the Republic François Hollande approved the words of his successor, who angered Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky. “All this assumes a military balance of power, so we must massively help the Ukrainians to create a balance of power, to defeat Russia. »
For François Hollande, “the war will last a long time”, and it will last “as long as there has not been a military balance of power created in one direction or another. If the aid is not sufficient, the world exposes itself to a “frozen conflict, without winner or loser”. The risk ? “After a while, there will be the acceptance of an amputated territory, which is unacceptable for Ukraine and dangerous for international balances. »
“Europe of defense is in NATO”
Because this conflict may well be localized, delimited by borders, the stakes are global, underlines François Hollande: “If Putin is defeated, that will mean for all authoritarian regimes that it is not possible to go that far. But if he obtains a territorial gain, even minimal, it means that force prevails. What is at stake is not a Western affair, but a rupture in the balance of the world. »
This is why “Ukraine must not enter NATO”, assures the former head of state. “It would be the major fact that would justify Russia’s actions, let’s not give it this pretext. But the EU must not get out of it. “Defense Europe is within NATO, it cannot be outside. Now, Europe must organize itself for its defense and have common equipment. We are far from it. »
“The importance” of the Franco-German link
Can it be done at 27? “No, slice François Hollande. Some, like Hungary, do not want it. It has to be done with a few countries, hence the importance of the Franco-German link. There has been progress, it needs to go faster. It is in this union that we will be able to create this Europe of defence, with the United Kingdom, even if it is outside the EU. »
This security comes at a price. “You have to tell the French: if you have to have security, you have to pay for it. “A necessary price to ensure its own security, considers François Hollande: “One of the weaknesses of Europe is to have always thought that the United States would come to save us in the event of an attack. But are we sure that another president, of another sensitivity, would come? »
On the other hand, François Hollande was reassuring about the risk of nuclear escalation. “Putin wants to reconstitute the Soviet Union, but he also has a lucidity. He knows that if he were to use a nuclear weapon, there would be a similar response on his territory. The countries of the South would be totally hostile to it. There cannot be a nuclear escalation. The nuclear threat is part of its strategy: to scare us, to incite us to give up. »
The failure of the reform vote, “a tremendous mess”
The former president then spoke about the pension reform. For him, this reform is “untimely and unfair”. Should one be made? “Yes”, but otherwise: by combining an extension of working time (“when life expectancy increases, it’s normal to work longer”) with employee and employer contributions, as well as with a participation of high earners.
He also returned at length to the failure of a vote in the National Assembly after two weeks of chaotic debates, punctuated with insults and tensions. “It’s a tremendous mess, none of the actors (the Nupes, the government, the right) come out victorious”, he laments, before tackling the socialist party, “hell, in an impasse” with this Nupes alliance.
“Mélenchon is in the strategy of not having the text voted on to prolong the social protest. I take issue with that strategy, but at least he has one. The allies of the Nupes should have realized before that they were at an impasse. »
“There is danger”
François Hollande also scratched his successor, Emmanuel Macron. According to him, the president completely failed his negotiations with the unions: “The compromise is useful. It was the first time under the Fifth Republic that a social movement was led by a reformist organization like the CFDT. For the government, that should have been the essential element of the negotiation, it was necessary to turn to Laurent Berger (secretary general of the CFDT) rather than towards Eric Ciotti (President of the Republicans). »
Finally, François Hollande draws a severe assessment of the parliamentary spectacle and the government’s management of this reform: “There is political democracy and social democracy. Neither has progressed. We are faced with a double failure, there is danger. »