2023-11-07 08:42:59
BarcelonaJoão Costa (1972) has taken up the position of Minister of Education in Portugal just over a year ago. Before that, he was secretary of education for seven years and is one of the people responsible for the radical transformation of the Portuguese educational model and results in the last decade. He welcomes us to the presentation of the 2024 Teaching Award of the Cercle d’Economy. Despite the country’s steady improvement in the international PISA reports and the drastic drop in school dropouts – the rate has fallen by more than 40 points in 20 years – Costa insists on rejecting the term “educational miracle”.
Going from 50% school dropout to 6% and being called “the biggest success story of the PISA reports in Europe”. Why doesn’t he want to talk about educational miracle?
— Because miracles are, by definition, manifestations that we cannot explain. What has happened in Portugal can be explained by the work of schools, teachers, governments and ministries. It is the result of educational policies and therefore there is no supernatural reason.
Putting aside the miracle hypothesis, how did it get here?
— Putting education at the center with a clear focus and a constant investment in education that remains despite the alternation of political cycles. Beyond this, key aspects are the decisive role of school principals as pedagogical leaders, investment in teacher training and specific national plans for reading, mathematics and science. But here we cannot forget the autonomy of the center to adapt the curriculum to its reality. This is one of the most recent bets we have made.
They now have a school dropout rate five points lower than the European average and three times lower than that of Spain. What do you attribute it to?
— We have never had so many young people studying higher education as this year. This is due to the extension of compulsory education until the age of 18 and the diversity of paths from the age of 15, when they can choose between scientific training, humanistic education, professional training or artistic education. But the creation of a network of schools in priority areas of vulnerability and the birth of public kindergartens are also essential. That and the fact that we managed to silence the message that studying is worth it with evidence. In Portugal the correlation between qualification and employment works. The more you study the more and better job you get.
Up to the age of 10, classes end at three in the afternoon and after that there are free extracurriculars”
Has the split day been decisive in this improvement?
— Yes, because with the free extracurricular activities we have reduced inequality between families. Here, up to the age of 10, classes end at three in the afternoon and then there is an offer of non-curricular activities for the students. In the later stages, the way the schedule is organized depends on the schools, some do more in the morning and others more in the afternoon depending on their capacity and the situation of their students.
Should the goal still be to get to university?
— In Portugal we had 48 years of dictatorship and the heaviest legacy it left us was a country with a very low rating. At that time the phrase that was repeated was ‘those who are not fit to work, are fit to study’. We have now removed this phrase from our conversation. The more educated you are, the better worker you are, regardless of whether you end up at university or not.
And now… What’s left to do?
— For 2024, our main priorities are the inclusion and integration of migrant students and the fight against misinformation and fake news through good management of digital skills. And, obviously, to recover from the pandemic that has been an accelerator of inequality.
Is this where school segregation comes in?
– Too. In Portugal, the place of residence is the sixth criterion that is taken into account when deciding which school a student attends. First there are the specific educational needs, if you have siblings at school, if the student benefits from social assistance… Can parents choose? Yes, but there are priorities in the distribution because the debate about freedom of choice is biased from the point where more informed families can make better choices. This is why the criteria are established.
In this conversation alone he has called more than a dozen actions. How much time is given to the ministry to decide whether an educational measure is effective?
— We believe that it takes six years and we have established this in the most recent legislation. We need to have deeply monitored the measure to evaluate it and make changes based on its effectiveness and not just when there is a change in the political cycle. Education is the territory of patience and the results are always very slow because they involve making meaningful changes to the practices that are applied in the classroom.
In a month we will know the new results of the PISA reports, the first after the pandemic. Do you think Portugal can continue to improve its score?
– I do not think so. It would be very strange if we continued on an upward trajectory after a pandemic. In fact, it would be worrying if, immediately after closing the schools, the students had a better standard. What interests us is not the absolute result but Portugal’s position with respect to the OECD average.
In Catalonia, they are starting to apply more competency-based curricula than memorization. How does Portugal deal with this dichotomy?
— I am co-author of a book called Knowledge vs skills, an absurd debate in education... And what I defend is very simple: there is no competition if there is no knowledge that is transformed into competition; and knowledge that is not transformed into competence runs the risk of being too sterile. Therefore, there is a relationship of interdependence. I study history to learn about the past, but also to be more competent in how to analyze today’s problems. It is impossible for resumes to talk about one thing without talking about the other.
Leaving digitization out of school is not preparing for today’s world”
Do screens have to be present in the classroom?
— Leaving digitization out of school is not preparing for today’s world. We have a digital transition plan with computers for students and digital whiteboards to teach a curriculum that also includes non-technological dimensions such as art and sport. However, digitization must be a didactic resource, not the be-all and end-all of education. That is why we are also working with recommendations for families on exposure time and dependence on screens.
And mobile phones?
— In Portugal we are at the same point as in Catalonia. There is an open debate and we are asking school councils for their views. We prefer to talk about recommendations and restrictions rather than prohibitions. Here you need to have confidence in the autonomy of the schools to make decisions based on their feelings.
We know Portugal for being an educational reference on a European scale, but the country has started the school year with several teacher strikes. How is it explained?
— During the economic crisis, all public careers in Portugal suffered greatly, including that of teachers. Our government started to undo the cuts in 2018, but we can’t rewrite history and pretend it didn’t happen. There have been a number of problems for many years and we have started to solve some of them. We are now living in a time of competition between the new teaching associations and the more classic unions. All together generate a context of protest.
One of the problems we have in Catalonia is that teachers do not feel valued by society. How do teachers look in Portugal?
— We have a paradoxical situation. Teachers complain that they are valued very little, but when polls are conducted among the population about which professions they respect the most, teachers appear in second or third place. We come from a low-skilled society with families that had a bad relationship with school and that makes them less respectful. At the same time, the more qualified population has a critical view of the school. These almost contradictory factors sometimes lead to teachers feeling slighted. But the school is a place of change and the teacher must change. The teacher must be respected, but this must not be confused with turning him into an authoritarian figure.
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