BarcelonaThe agenda of the two major unions in Spain, CCOO and UGT, has been filled for the month of October. The context of runaway inflation and stagnant salaries has multiplied the appearances of its general secretaries in Catalonia, Javier Pacheco and Camil Ros, in protests, rallies and strikes by sectors that press for better wages and to compensate for the loss of purchasing power. The union leaders attend to the ARA after a week of changes in the Catalan government and concern over the urgency of approving budgets that strengthen the social shield in the midst of the cost of living crisis.
How do you rate the departure of Junts from the Government of the Generalitat?
Camil Ross: We don’t go in to make or take matches, or to say what we think. We value governments for their policies. Having said that, obviously what needs to be seen is whether the departure of Junts causes more instability or can open a path of more stability, especially in the policies that are pending, at a time when families have less and less income and cost plus reach the end of the month.
Xavier Pacheco: It is not a good time for the political instability of a fully fragmented Parliament and a government with minority support not yet articulated. Instability is a concern that is added to the socio-economic situation. We are also concerned about the direction of this political fragmentation, and how some of the speeches that are being put on the table may have a risk of polarization in which Catalan Trumpism also enters the political debate in our country.
You were opposed to some of the proposals of Junts in fiscal matters. Is an executive without this party a guarantee of more social policies for the unions?
C.R.: [Al nou Govern] we will judge him by his facts, we want to see what the budget proposal is. In the taxation debate, we would like to go into it in more depth, but we will also see what it raises. There have been very, very, very left-wing governments that have not made left-wing policies. Therefore, the fact that some enter or others leave is no guarantee of anything. Taxation should be a tool in the service of the welfare state, not a populist tool that can give you more votes.
J.P.: We are a clearly declared organization of the social left. Therefore, the fact that a political organization that refers to liberal and conservative economic policies is not in government does not bother us.
Interview with Camil Ros of the UGT and Javier Pacheco of CCOO
Do they trust in a pact of the left of the Parliament to approve the budgets?
C.R.: If we now make a very quick chronology of what we have from this century and even from the last century, in most budgets the political space of the commons, of the socialists, of ERC and of Junts – former Convergència, more or less has found accords The problem is that the political dialectic at the moment is more marked by the national axis than by the social one, which should be more marked in debates such as budgets. We will not solve the national conflict in the next quarter, and certainly not next year. If we look at the results of the elections to the Parliament of Catalonia, they gave two very clear messages: political dialogue against unilateralism, and left-wing and social policies. Those are the two big majorities that came out, so let’s make this a reality.
J.P.: I would not only say that it is possible, but I think that it is the only possibility that exists today for a Government of the Generalitat to have a journey with the intention of savoring its legislature. If there are no budgets, why does he want to govern? We will say this clearly to the president of the Generalitat. If you want to stay, you have to really govern and you need the resources. You cannot give up 3,000 million euros in this situation. It would be unforgivable for anyone who wants to put himself before the general interests of the citizens of Catalonia in a price crisis like the one we are experiencing. Therefore, I trust the criterion of responsibility of the president of the Generalitat. Surely they will not give up having this economic lever to be able to deal with the policies that the country needs.
Much of his messaging in recent months has focused on harshly criticizing the fact that corporate profits have risen while workers’ wages have not. Do you think that these gains should be limited?
J.P.: He might not be in favor of capping prices throughout the economy, but he would be in favor of the basic elements that a person needs to live. To have a house, a roof to live in, to eat, and the energy to cook food. The State government should intervene in these three basic elements in a crisis like the one we are experiencing. In addition, it has all the justification of a global nature, because it is partly produced by the uncertainties of the economy due to the management of a war at the gates of our countries. There are enough elements and it is already being done timidly in some areas.
C.R.: There is a certain discourse, especially from areas of power and from the right, that we are going to the end of the world, that this will end and it will kick. They already told us this last spring, and now they keep insisting on it even though the data doesn’t say that. It is an attempt to use the excuse that a crisis will come when we go to the negotiating tables. They should be ashamed, they can’t raise salaries but they are increasing profits. If in general the profits of the companies rise, in general the wages should rise, because this excess of greed can end up causing the crisis of truth. There will be a time when we will not be able to buy their products and we will already have the consumer crisis on the table.
Have the Spanish government’s measures to curb inflation been insufficient?
J.P.: The policy of the State government is insufficient, that of the Generalitat non-existent and that of the greedy employers. The latter aims to distribute mercy and charity. Why do I say this? Because at the same time that they are refusing to directly pay the wages of their benefits, they are telling the State that in order to have enough resources to carry out these social protection policies, they should lower the pensioners’ salary by not revaluing the pensions in what had been agreed, don’t raise the salary of public employees… Save here to give it to the poor so you don’t have to charge me more taxes.
C.R.: It is a European framework that must mark and limit certain prices. The Spanish state has some capacities, but Brussels has others. The problem is on the other side: there is an employer who is in his world of business profits. In the spring the ban was opened and prices went up and since the summer three villages have already passed. Something has happened that I believe has never happened before: we have reached a salary agreement with the State government before with the employers.
Aren’t they surprised that in a context like this there isn’t more labor conflict?
C.R.: Usually the answers end up being where the most organized people are. There are many small and medium-sized companies where workers are not organized. The levels of calls for sectoral strikes are rising, and in some companies following these protests – some with strikes, others with pressure – agreements have been reached. The metal of Barcelona and Tarragona will be mobilized in a powerful way, then other sectors will come, it is a gradual process of addition and awareness.
J.P.: Mobilizations are growing. But I also want to make a reflection in relation to this supposed social explosion that we would have to live with a totally runaway inflation. In Catalonia there are several hundreds of thousands of workers who today have a salary and who did not have one a year ago. In other words, the employment capacity has increased during this time. There is a balance between the incomes that are frozen because they are still in the negotiation process and all the people who are joining the world of work as a result of a labor reform that is the result of a continuous process of mobilization and resistance. There’s that in stone-chopping, it’s not about getting it all done the next day in a quarter of an hour. We have more resources, this labor reform has more mechanisms for the union organization to gain power in the company.
The employer rose from the table in the talks to approve a new AENC (the general framework for collective agreements). Do they expect an agreement next year?
J.P.: Not next year, we are not giving up on this year, with an inflation deviation like the one we have.
C.R.: It’s just that they should never have gotten up. It’s irresponsible, it’s another thing to wait a few months to see how we get it going again, but what they did earlier in the summer is irresponsible. Everyone with some common sense in the economic world is telling them. Therefore, they will have to sit down.
What investments are needed in Catalonia after the closure of Nissan?
J.P.: The deployment of renewable energies in our country is essential to develop any country’s industrial strategy. Why don’t we have a battery plant here? Because we have no way to feed it, make no mistake, a battery plant needs a level of renewable energy support, otherwise it loses its meaning. Catalonia is the first autonomous community in installed production in the automotive sector in Spain. We cannot lose this criterion of opportunity because we do not deploy the energy strategy well. We have a supercomputer, the microchips of Catalonia cannot leave Catalonia. We have to make the policy so that they stay. The third area is everything linked to nanotechnology in health.
C.R.: What the closure of Nissan puts on the table is that we had no industrial policy. For many years what we said was that the best industrial policy was the one that didn’t exist, and then we thought that making four powerpoints industrial policy was made. What we have seen with the closures of Nissan and others is the feeling that politics, rather than doing industrial policy, is acting as a real estate agent: I buy a ship, I sell it, I rent it, I look for someone to come in. .. It’s not that. It is necessary to make a commitment to university education and professional training in the industrial fields in order to have well-prepared people. This is not there, and it is also industrial policy.