2023-05-24 19:12:44
The cross : TotalEnergies is the subject of numerous criticisms, in particular for inaction in the face of global warming. The general meeting of shareholders this Friday, May 26 promises to be stormy…
Patrick Pouyanne: They are difficult to bear for many of our employees, because if there is an oil company in the world which is committed to new energies, it is ours. We invest massively in electricity, particularly renewable, and this is not sufficiently recognised, especially in France.
TotalEnergies has become a political object, the company of all fantasies. This has been exacerbated in 2022 with the increase in gas and oil prices, the benefits we have received from them. And of course with, in the background, climate issues.
In this context, how do you justify the pursuit of oil exploration?
P. P. : Who can decide that the current demand for oil does not correspond to real needs? Us, the rich Western countries, by deciding that the emerging countries must remain in poverty and consume less energy to develop, while some of them have the natural resources that we have exploited for our benefit?
Our role is not to limit supply by weakening populations who legitimately aspire to a better standard of living. And we won’t, even if we have to suffer some form of reproach. This is not what was said to these countries during the Paris Agreement, in 2015, which focused on climate and development.
But isn’t the climate emergency a game-changer?
P. P. : That the States wishing to impose it go and explain it to these populations. Look what happened in 2022. Europe was so scared of running out of energy that it bought up every possible shipment of liquefied natural gas (LNG). South-East Asian countries that couldn’t afford to pay for this expensive gas had to switch back to coal, only to be criticized by us right away, because it emits more CO2!
Behind the climate emergency, there is a deep subject of global solidarity that we do not want to address. We can always teach the planet lessons, but emerging countries need oil to support their development. And today, faced with an energy demand which continues to increase, the additional production resulting from renewables is absorbed by the growth of the population and economic activity.
In your eyes, it is therefore up to the political power to make decisions…
P. P. : Of course.
And he doesn’t do it enough?
P. P. : The idea of the Paris Agreement was that we all move forward together with a view to carbon neutrality. But China plans to reach it in 2060, India in 2070. Together, they represent half of the world’s consumption and emissions.
In Europe, we are right to be ambitious, and we support the goal of carbon neutrality by 2050. But last year, European leaders poured 500 billion euros into fossil fuels to mitigate soaring prices, while by explaining in international forums that we had to stop subsidizing them…
Patrick Pouyanné, Tour Total, Monday May 16 / Emeline Sauser for La Croix
All the billions used to transform the European economy would be more effective for the climate if they were invested in countries with high population growth. No, TotalEnergies cannot reduce the demand for oil on its own. It is taken for a giant, while it represents only 1% of world oil production…
According to you, you can’t do anything?
P. P. : No. We help our customers to decarbonize by offering them new energies. Compared to 2014, we have divided by three investments in new hydrocarbon projects, while increasing our renewable capacities from almost zero to 18 gigawatts.
We have pledged to devote half of our investments in new energy projects to renewables, around 5 billion euros this year – which does not include our investments in gas, contrary to what some claim. Not many of us in the world commit so much money.
You are blamed for not going fast enough…
P. P. : There are always a lot of “there is only”, but we are progressing very quickly: 1 billion euros invested in low carbon energies in 2020, 2 billion in 2021, 4 in 2022, 5 in 2023… We cannot go any faster. You have to find the projects, the land, the people, with, in addition, in Europe an environmental authorization system that takes twice as long as elsewhere.
You are calling for a vote against a climate resolution presented to the general meeting, asking that your Scope 3 emissions, that is to say those of your customers, be aligned with the Paris Agreement. Why do you oppose it?
P. P. : To reduce TotalEnergies’ Scope 3 emissions, there is only one solution: reduce our activities and sell service stations. We would have no problem finding a buyer. But would that help the climate? No. It would just result in a transfer of wealth to another actor.
Do you think it is still possible to limit global warming to 2°C by the end of the century?
P. P. : Yes, because I have confidence in new technologies and in man’s ability to innovate. Energy is an essential commodity and everyone is looking for solutions, putting more and more money into it. There is, for example, synthetic fuel, which no one talked about three years ago.
There are also projects in the capture and storage of CO2, as recommended by the Paris Agreement. To achieve carbon neutrality, we need to develop these carbon sinks. We are starting to work, for example, on injecting carbon into hot wells so that it becomes mineralized.
Above all, it should be remembered that protecting the forest is the cheapest way to save carbon, less than 20 dollars per ton. It is urgent that the Heads of State agree to stop deforestation and commit to a program of reforestation. These imperatives laid down, we must all roll up our sleeves.
By stopping all new major projects, like the very controversial one you are developing in Uganda? That’s what the International Energy Agency suggests…
P. P. : This club of energy consumers, created in opposition to OPEC, the club of producers, advocates a drop in supply while explaining each quarter that the demand for oil is increasing. Where is the consistency ? The IEA had better go convince its members to lower their requirements, while it is the first to complain when OPEC cuts its offer because it raises prices.
We believe that oil needs will decrease in the 2030s, and try to anticipate new needs. However, the natural decline of our deposits is 3 to 4% per year. If we don’t invest in new projects, our production goes down and we don’t meet the demand.
When will the end of oil be?
P. P. : The IEA estimates that oil consumption in 2050 should be a quarter of what it is today. U.S. too. But to act for the climate, the priority is the end of coal, the cheapest energy, but the most polluting – which is why we decided to stop using coal in 2015.
This is the subject, along with deforestation, on which the heads of state of the planet should agree. If COP28 decided to replace all coal-fired power stations with gas-fired power stations, which emit half as much CO2 – it’s technically very simple – we would automatically return to the right trajectory.
Moreover, we must stop believing that the energy coming from the sun or the wind is free. To have electricity available all the time, we will have to invest heavily in storage and networks. Ultimately, energy will be permanently more expensive.
Greenpeace estimates that your carbon footprint is four times heavier than that displayed and you are suing it. For what ?
P. P. : In the name of what should we accept that the reputation of a company is attacked on the basis of false allegations?
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TotalEnergies, fifth western oil company
The company was created in 1924 under the name Compagnie Française des Pétroles. It took the name Total in 1985. It bought the Belgian Petrofina in 1999 then Elf Aquitaine in 2000. In 2021, it took the name TotalEnergies to illustrate its shift towards energies other than oil.
The group now employs more than 100,000 people in 130 countries, with a turnover of 260 billion euros. Thanks to the rise in oil and gas prices, it recorded 19 billion euros in profits in 2022, the largest amount in its history, and even of a CAC 40 company.
Its profits are nevertheless lower than those made by the other major Western majors in the sector, particularly American, and rank French fifth. The Americans Exxon Mobil and Chevron reached 56 billion and 33 billion euros respectively; the Anglo-Dutch Shell, 37 billion, and the British BP, 26 billion. The Saudi Aramco, world number one, explodes the counters, with 151 billion in profits.
Less oil, but more gas and electricity
TotalEnergies realized last year a production of hydrocarbons – ie oil and gas – by 2.76 million barrels of oil equivalent (the industry standard) per day, a decline of 2% over one year.
The group’s strategy is to accelerate in gas and in particular liquefied natural gas (LNG), of which it is already today the world’s third largest player, with 48 million tonnes sold last year, including 17 million from its production shares. Its objective is to reduce its sales of petroleum products by 30% by 2030 (ie a reduction of half compared to 2015) and to double those of LNG at the same time.
By the end of the decade, the group also aims to be among the top five global producers of solar and wind electricity by 2030, with 100 GW of installed capacity, with a milestone of 35 GW in 2025. At the end of 2022, it was at 17 GW .
A reduction in the carbon footprint
The group has just revised its climate ambitions upwards with its plan “net zero”in 2050, highly contested by its opponents. To achieve this, gas and oil should only represent 25% of its energy mix by mid-century: 25% will come from “new low-carbon energies”, such as hydrogen, biogas and synthetic fuels, and the remaining 50% renewable electricity.
TotalEnergies promises to reduce its net CO2 emissions by approximately 40% between 2015 and 2030. By this time, direct emissions (Scope 1 and 2) should be between 25 and 30 million tonnes per year. They reached 40 million tonnes in 2022.
The group has also committed to reducing its methane emissions: less than 50% in 2025 compared to 2020. In 2030 the drop would be 80%.
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