Jack Matlock, for 20 years at the center of all US-USSR negotiations. “On the expansion of NATO to the East, I ask: what reason was there?”
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NEW YORK – To quote one of the songs from the most famous musical of the last twenty years, Hamiltonthe ambassador Jack Matlock it’s always been “In the room where it happensIn the room where things happen. Reagan’s political advisor on Russia, then ambassador to Moscow from 1987 to 1991, he participated in almost all the US-USSR meetings from ’72 to ’91.
What was your first impression of Gorbachev?
“He seemed much younger than his predecessors, knowledgeable about everything and able to carry on a conversation without constantly referring to his notes. Trust then was a gradual thing. We started with armaments, finding Gorbachev much more responsive than others. Even after Reykjavik’s failure, we felt that both he and Reagan were looking for a solution. Many letters were written by hand ».
And what were the relations between Nancy Reagan and Raissa Gorbaciova like?
«I would have anecdotes! Both Reagan and Gorbachev were very attached to their wives, but Raissa was indeed the husband’s chief adviser. When Gorbachev proposed a brief meeting in Reykjavík Reagan asked me what I thought and I said we had to accept and that it would be better not to let them go. first ladies so as not to weigh on the organization. So we texted to say yes, and that Mrs Reagan would not go, but when we got there Raissa was there. Later I asked for explanations, they told us that they had warned Gorbachev, but he could not function without his wife. And then when Raissa came to Washington, her first words to Nancy about her were, “We missed you in Reykjavík,” to which she replied, “I wasn’t invited.” But the initial tension soon disappeared. Nancy was not involved in the political process, but she was determined that Ronald would end up in the history books as a peace leader and take out the hawks “.
Did you know that Reagan would use the phrase “Mr. Gorbachev, knock that wall down” in Berlin?
“No, but I understood the reason. We were on the verge of signing the agreement on medium-range nuclear weapons, but Europe was still divided, and he wanted it to be clear that there was still a long way to go. But there is no direct cause-effect relationship between that speech and the fall of the wall: Reagan was no longer president, there was Bush the father. And I remember that before Bush went to the East for the first time, Gorbachev told me: “Ask your president to be more cautious”. I asked if it could be more specific. He replied: “Just tell him so.” Bush during the visit made no mention of the wall and indeed praised perestroika. In the end in that way he facilitated Gorbachev’s efforts to free the East Germans so that they could tear down that wall for them. And so it happened “.
Some say that Bush, or rather his Secretary of State James Baker, and she was there when it happened, promised that NATO would not expand east.
“It’s a little more complicated than that. In February 1990 Baker came to Moscow to try to persuade Gorbachev to leave Germany united in NATO. We added the premise: Assuming there is no Alliance expansion … But what we were talking about was a gentleman’s agreement, not a legal commitment. From my point of view, however, once the Eastern countries had left the Warsaw Pact and had become democratic, what reason was there to expand NATO? ”
Could you have helped Gorbachev more in the end, when internal discontent grew, perhaps with some sort of Marshall Plan for the Soviet Union?
“In the spring of ’91, already no longer in office, Thatcher came to Moscow to speak with Gorbachev and wanted to meet me. She told me to appeal to Bush to “help Mikhail”, she said she just like that. And I remember her adding, “You know, Ron and I would have done anything for him, he saved us a hundred billion at least.” I replied that their economic system was irrational, money would not help. She blurted out: “You talk like a diplomat, why don’t you think like a statesman?” She was right. ‘
She warned Gorbachev of a possible coup.
“Moscow Mayor Gavril Popov wanted to see me in private and wrote me a note saying he wanted to send a message to Yeltsin, who would meet President Bush in Washington that day. He told me they were planning a coup against Gorbachev, he wrote down four names and then tore the piece of paper into pieces and put it in his pocket. Upon receiving the message, Yeltsin said to warn Gorbachev. They asked me to do it, but I didn’t feel comfortable giving the names because we didn’t have any proof, it was just what the mayor told us. And so I told him that we had this news, but that it was not the result of American intelligence and we could not confirm it. The next day Gorbachev spoke to Bush, thanked him for sending me and said there was nothing to worry about. Bush made the mistake of mentioning Popov over the phone, which was obviously controlled by the KGB. But after the coup failed months later, Popov said it was a good thing because the organizers realized they had a mole, slowed down their preparations, and when they finally tried, they weren’t properly prepared. One of the many ironies of history “.
August 31, 2022 (change August 31, 2022 | 23:14)
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