2024-05-09 00:05:28
New Delhi : S. on India’s foreign policy during the second term of Modi government. Jaishankar has made a tremendous impression. He has given a new dimension to foreign policy. What major changes does Jaishankar, a career diplomat, see in the foreign policy during the last 10 years of the Modi government? What does he think about the complexity of relations with the US and Canada? As a politician, how does he see the performance of the country’s main opposition party Congress in the South? In ‘Economic Times Roundtable’ S. Jaishankar answered all the questions openly, from politics to country’s security and foreign policy. Gave a clear message to all the countries including Pakistan on terrorism that India will not hesitate to take the biggest steps for its security and kill by entering the house. In response to the question whether Congress is going to make a comeback in the South, he spoke candidly like a seasoned politician. Here are some selected excerpts from the interview. Question: There have been two phases of elections. What is your team’s run rate?
S. Jaishankar- In the first two phases, special attention was given to Tamil Nadu and Kerala. We have been active in this area for a long time, but it has not had any impact (in seats). We hope for better performance this time. Honestly, hopefully we will win some seats there.
Question- What is your position for BJP after the first two phases?
S. Jaishankar- There is a scorer there. I can only share my feeling with you. In Tamil Nadu, as well as in Kerala, Karnataka and Telangana, where I have been, things are moving in our favour.
Question- Congress seems to be taking shape in the South. Your comment?
S. Jaishankar- Well, Congress does not have much influence in Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh. So, these are two of the five states. To be honest, I think they are grasping at straws to make themselves seem bigger than they really are.
Question: How do you react to US President Joe Biden’s comment that countries like India are xenophobic, due to which the economy is faltering?
S. Jaishankar- First of all, our economy is not faltering. India has always been a very unique country. It is a society that is very open. Different people from different societies come to India. That’s why we have CAA, so that doors can be opened for people in trouble. I think we should be open to people who need to come to India, who have claims to come to India.
Question- Do you think foreign countries are trying to influence or interfere in Indian elections?
S. Jaishankar- Country can mean government, parliament, media, intelligence department. So, I don’t think this is the right question or the right answer. I think it’s as clear as the nose on my face that there are self-indulgent people with different interests. There are people who publicly said that millions of Muslims will lose their citizenship because of CAA. Why are they not being held accountable? No one has lost their citizenship. There are people who said you should not do anything to disrupt demonstrations, even if it inconveniences the public, blocks roads. How are they handling it when it comes to their own people? As members of the Indian press, you all would be happy to know your rank (in the Press Freedom Index recently released by RSF). I think the number is 159. I mean these are political hit jobs. Let’s stop pretending. I’m not hinting or implying anything. I am exposing it. Every time there is a movement in India we get a lot of lectures about how to deal with the masses. I invite you to look at the pictures on the screens on television today. What do they preach, what do they practice, what is their agenda, what is their objectivity?
Question: What is your reaction to the reports of alleged Indian involvement in the killing of terrorists wanted in Pakistan and other countries?
S. Jaishankar- There are a large number of terrorists in Pakistan, so statistically, something or the other will happen to them. It’s an industry that they’ve created. People have been warning Pakistan for a long time. Forget India. Hillary Clinton had warned Pakistan very publicly. If you have characters like that, I think certain things are a natural consequence of that.
Question: But when the Prime Minister says that he will enter the house and kill…
S. Jaishankar- So killed, killed after Uri, killed in Balakot.
Question- And then these murders also happen in Pakistan, Canada and America?
S. Jaishankar- Look, two and two and two do not make 222. Someone says that something has happened in Pakistan. It is possible that it may have happened. Who did it? Who knows. Someone else is saying that something can happen or is planned to happen in another country. Pakistan is Pakistan, other countries are other countries.
Question- What do you have to say about anti-India gangs and pending extradition requests in Canada?
S. Jaishankar- This is a matter of concern for us. In fact, this is the part of our conversation where, I confess, I have not been very successful. We have repeatedly said to Canada that you, for some reason, are very open about harboring organized crime.
Question- Will we ever see the return home of economic criminals like Vijay Mallya and others?
S. Jaishankar- We expect it, we demand it. But clearly, you are asking the wrong government. The government of the other country should answer why they did not go. We will continue to put pressure on these people to bring them back, hold them accountable.
Question- When absolute majority is enough for BJP, then why was the target set beyond 400?
S. Jaishankar- When you were sitting in the exam, did you say why do I want 80%, I am happy with 60%. Everyone wants to do better. A landslide victory will strengthen the government. In 2014, BJP was in the 200s, in 2019 it is in the 300s. So, after 2 and 3 comes 4.
Question- How big is the challenge in Karnataka?
S. Jaishankar- Karnataka government has made hasty promises without considering the budgetary implications. Frankly, many promises either cannot be fulfilled or are being fulfilled at the expense of basic government services. The water problem is terrible. We are seeing criminalization of politics by Congress. But we are confident that in the end the voters will take a thoughtful decision.
Question- Do you regret the alliance with JDS after Prajwal Revanna case?
S. Jaishankar- All I can say is that the law will take its course in this matter. I don’t think anyone has any doubt on this.
Question- Why did you not contest the Lok Sabha elections?
S. Jaishankar- The leadership felt that a person like me could be used in the best way in the entire country. I have just come from Telangana, Karnataka, Kerala, Rajasthan, Gujarat, Mizoram. I am heading towards Odisha, West Bengal, Maharashtra and Punjab. I would not have been able to do this if I had focused on a single constituency. You gave the example of cricket. I think everyone has a role to play in the team.
Question- According to you, what are the three major changes that have taken place in India’s foreign policy in the last 10 years?
S. Jaishankar- One, it has changed in the sense of realism. Today, we are clearly focused on what is good for India. This runs contrary to the earlier left liberal belief that there is a greater reason why our national interest comes second. We are nationalists. I think that’s really the fundamental difference. An important reason for this is that we are not inspired by the vote bank. At first, it was an afterthought, especially in relation to Israel.
It is a very misconception that governments change but foreign policies do not change. This is a betrayal by the previous guy who is saying please maintain our foreign policy because you should not change it. This will change as a different party comes to power, with a different ideology, with a different perception and priorities. Take, for example, the historic left’s reluctance to approach our relationship with the United States. I think after 2014 it changed very rapidly.
Another example is from China. There it was believed that we could make common cause on many issues. My friend Jairam Ramesh took it to a philosophical level with CHINDIA, an updated version of Panchsheel. The idea is the same, which is that basically we will follow China. Previous Indian governments have also put Chinese interests ahead of our interests. Today, the answer is no, we will not let them control the game. There will be costs and consequences.
And finally, on Israel. It is a natural partner. But we were afraid to be seen in public. It took until 1992 for us to set up an embassy and until 2017 for an Indian Prime Minister to visit. So, for me, this is a set of examples. The second is that today there is a very strong link between the economic needs of the country and its foreign policy. When we look at our partners, we think about how this relationship can promote economic growth. And the third difference is civilization and culture. We stand for cultural India, and we feel that previous governments did not do this.