The “Protagonists” met Katerina Sakellaropoulou in her “shelter”, on the outskirts of the Rodopi.
Stavros Theodorakis started talking with her in her modest Thracian home, continued to the favorite places of her childhood, where for many she is still “the granddaughter of Christakis”, to end up in her Presidential office, in Herodou Attikou.
To a question for her dreams and if he thought that he would ever become President of the Republic, he replied: “Obviously not. My father, in fact, never pressured me, not even for Law, which I chose. But I chose it and then took the exams at the Council of State. I think the family environment often influences. Yes, maybe I was subconsciously influenced too.” Among the issues discussed were the minorities in Thrace, but also the accident in Tempi and Justice. “My own memories are only about harmonious coexistence. Of course, what you say has been recorded historically, but I believe that for decades the State treats everyone equally and gives everyone the same opportunities” she said referring to to the minorities in Thrace while for Tempe he stated: “Since that day, when I see tracks or a train, in addition to pain and anger, I also feel shame. I want to believe that yes, Justice will be served, it is a demand of society, of each of us. Since that night, when 57 human lives were lost, and even young people’s lives, the feelings of pain and rage are what I think possess all of us. I want to believe that Justice will do its duty. He has to do it. We are all waiting for answers. To be sought, to be assigned the responsibilities and to have the punishment provided for by the legal order”.
In detail, the President of the Republic, among other things, stated:
For her choice to become a lawyer
STH: What dreams did your parents have for you? That you will become a judge and at some point you will also become President of the Republic?
KS: Obviously not. My father, in fact, never pressured me, not even for Law, which I chose. But I chose it and then took the exams at the Council of State. I think the family environment often influences. Yes, maybe I was subconsciously influenced too.
For the minorities in Thrace
STH: At times the Greek State had not treated all the citizens of Thrace with the respect it deserved. There used to be bars in Pomakochoria, there were some discriminations, but all that probably didn’t concern you then, as a child.
KS: My own memories are only about harmonious coexistence. Of course, what you say has been recorded historically, but I believe that for decades the State has treated everyone equally and given everyone the same opportunities.
For the accident in Tempe and Justice
ST: Our nice trains. But that image, you know, I think has been destroyed for all of us, since that day when we lost 57 people in Tempe.
KS: Shall I tell you something? Since that day, when I see tracks or a train, in addition to pain and anger, I also feel shame.
STH: But will we find out at some point who was largely responsible? Who had the major responsibility and also the lesser responsibilities? Will Justice be served?
KS: I want to believe that yes, it is a demand of society, of each one of us. Since that night, when 57 human lives were lost, and even young people’s lives, the feelings of pain and rage are what I think possess all of us. I want to believe that Justice will do its duty. He has to do it. We are all waiting for answers. To be sought, to be assigned the responsibilities and to have the punishment provided for by the legal order.
STH: And what many citizens say, that Justice is with the powerful and decisions cover those who don’t always want the truth?
KS: I don’t want to beautify things, but I always believe that in a Democracy, Justice should be with every citizen, especially with the helpless and vulnerable, and in every case seek justice and award it. Let the citizen have the feeling that he has found, as we say, his right.
STH: Are you proud of the Greek Justice?
KS: It is a very long, heavy talk, to say that I am proud. I don’t have to judge anyone. I have been a judge for almost 40 years. I know many of my colleagues are trying to do the right thing. Of course there will be failures and mistakes. Judges are people too. What I deeply wish and hope for, is precisely that they are independent and not influenced by anyone in their judgment. That’s what I always wish for.
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For non-state universities
STH: In recent months there has been a debate whether the Government’s law on non-state universities exceeds or is at all in line with Article 16 of the Constitution. What is your answer?
KS: Of course I followed this discussion, this scientific dialogue. There is also dialogue in society. Constitutionalists expressed themselves in one and the other direction in view of the wording of the specific provision of the Constitution. I believe that the final judge in a Rule of Law, such as our country, is the courts.
STH: So the final decision will be made by the Council of State.
KS: Of course, yes.
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For marriage equality
ST: It has been written and commented that you participated in the success of passing a law. I’m talking about the Marriage Equality Act.
KS: Things are not exactly like that. In any case it is not a victory for a law. It is an emblematic regulation concerning the right of a group of our fellow citizens to have the same rights as all of us, and even rights for children. Almost forty years as a judge and four years as President of the Republic, I think I have shown my sensitivity to human rights and their universal enjoyment by all citizens. What I do not accept is that anyone who seeks an inclusive society can be divisive.
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For the Greek-Turkish and the situation in the Gaza Strip
STH: Many times I wonder, and I think not only me, how much we would have won if this arms race and this tension did not exist. How much both peoples would have gained.
KS: It is certain that peoples prosper in peace. As it has been said, already by the Romans, “when you want to have peace, it is good to prepare for war”. If we look at what is happening around us on the world map in recent years, the situation in Ukraine, in the Middle East, it becomes clear that one must also prepare for more difficult situations. Europe is already preparing to move towards its strategic autonomy.
STH: And what is happening in Israel and Palestine? What can one choose there?
KS: Hamas carried out a brutal attack. Beyond that, however, Israel’s right to defend itself, which was recognized from the beginning, must have some limits. We cannot afford to lose so many human lives. What should happen at some point, and I think we all wish for it, is for all these peoples to coexist. The Palestinians have an equal right to exist.
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For the environment
STH: Do you think we need stricter environmental laws?
KS: We need to apply the laws above all and the truth is that in some issues such as the legalization of the arbitrary, which we also have arbitrarily in the forests or the issues of outside the building plan, these are big issues that the our country to cope with for decades now in an adequate way. I think we could have done better on the issue of the environment and the issue of the climate crisis. We look a little like we don’t realize how late it is, how many dangers there are.
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For gender equality
STH: The first female President of the Hellenic Republic and the first female President of the Council of State. What can one assume? That we are in a state of equality or is the choice of a woman in these positions an alibi?
KS: Maybe neither. It’s the way things are. When I chose to become a judge and took the State Council exam I was the tenth woman to enter. In 2018 I actually became the first female president of the Council of State. Until then, my development was a career judge, judged by my colleagues. It is the Supreme Judicial Council under the Constitution. So I got to choose from the Council of Ministers then.
STH: And two years later, election of Kyriakos Mitsotakis for the Presidency of the Republic and a very large majority in the Parliament. I will insist, do we live in a male dominated society or do you deny it?
KS: No, steps have been taken and it is very important, but there is still a lot to be done.
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For the law of quota
ST: Do you think that what we call a quota is a solution? They did it in Canada too. They said half the cabinet will be women. Horizontal decision. Do you think it is a decision that if the European Union took would help things? Do you believe in the quota?
KS: It is important with your worth to become anything and get somewhere. Merit is very basic. A quota is one way to encourage them to participate, but it is certainly not the best solution. It is a necessary solution.
For the women who have influenced her
STH: So who are your heroines? The female figures who have influenced you or who you study.
KS: First of all I would say that I represent my gender. I’m here representing all the others. All the others who achieved small or big things. And I find it very moving in my travels to smaller towns, to islands, to find older women, who are usually the women who might have been in the fields, at home, not had the opportunity to have a career, to claim more. But they offered from where they were. I see great emotion on their face. They see that I could be their daughter or granddaughter many times over. Emotion is really important to me. I’m here for them too. Because many women have offered a lot for us to be here today. So, if I wanted to talk about heroines, I would say that my heroines are ordinary everyday women. Those who preceded and those who continue to fight. But since you also mentioned some famous names, from my readings, as a judge now, when I grew up, I have really singled out Ruth Bader Ginsberg, because she was an iconic figure. She struggled to accomplish what she accomplished, to be the second woman on the Supreme Court of the United States and with a very long career, perhaps close to forty years.
On toxicity in politics
STH: I imagine you were bothered by what, let’s not go into details, but has the general title of toxicity of the political scene?
KS: Toxicity, whether it is in the political arena or in the mass media, is not something that benefits. It just obscures things. When one is not sober enough to listen to the other point of view, to exchange arguments, one cannot come to a conclusion. We must stay as cool as we can and open up to the other person. Let’s hear his side as well. This I think is important.
On whether she is open to challenges
SH: Should that be the title? A President open to challenges?
KS: I wouldn’t call it that heavy. A President who tries to be open. This. To be open to others and to be open to all. I believe this is both my obligation and my desire.
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